1. @DrShadeeElmasry stop spamming irrelevant reports that you do not genuinely consider, and instead adhere to your scholars, who have already admitted that their reason for denying such implications is based on rational, not scriptural grounds.
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The scriptural texts are replete with affirmations of God being above the throne in a real sense.
2. The implication that “God created place, thus God is not in a place” is accurate when considering that place is a created entity, which Muslims deny.
2. The implication that “God created place, thus God is not in a place” is accurate when considering that place is a created entity, which Muslims deny.
Ahl al-Hadith assert that Allah cannot be confined within a created place.
3. You should be aware of this point, especially given that your opponents reject the notion of God being within creation. You claim to be an academic, yet your response appears to be a mere appeal to
3. You should be aware of this point, especially given that your opponents reject the notion of God being within creation. You claim to be an academic, yet your response appears to be a mere appeal to
laymen who are unable to discern the straw man argument you are constructing.
4. Despite your irrelevant citation of reports, your denial of God being on the Throne, [And please don't go to; he's above in rank] stems from an Aristotelian concept of place,
4. Despite your irrelevant citation of reports, your denial of God being on the Throne, [And please don't go to; he's above in rank] stems from an Aristotelian concept of place,
wherein place is perceived as a void that confines what is within it. Based on this concept, we also reject such a notion of place. However, the problem lies in the fact that the later scholars of your school, have wholeheartedly affirmed this concept,
and do not conceive of an entity that exists ontologically and externally except within this framework of place. Thus, they conclude that God cannot be in a place, and they deny thereby the Qur'an.
5. Therefore, if you were serious about addressing the core issue,
5. Therefore, if you were serious about addressing the core issue,
you should have approached it from this perspective to explain why you hold such a position—one that is, quite frankly, irrational and contrary to clear statements from revelation. What is even more shocking is that this very concept among others form the basis upon which
revelation is deemed speculative; When your school asserts that God cannot be in a place due to irrational implications, they actually refer to this concept of place as "the rational implication," necessitating the reinterpretation of verses from revelation.
6. If it is clear that we reject such a concept of place, here is our position: it is merely a mental construct. When we say something exists, we are not referring to a void containing a particular entity, but rather, we are speaking of the entity itself being present.
Therefore, when God is said to be above the throne in a real sense, He is not to be conceived as an entity within a creation, but rather as himself existing outside, separate, and above His creation.
7. Denying that God exists outside of creation ontologically and externally,
7. Denying that God exists outside of creation ontologically and externally,
after we have demonstrated the incoherence of your concept of place and shown that it is nothing other than God's existence itself, would essentially mean the denial of God’s existence.
8. I conclude with this question: If it is said that God exists in the real, ontological sense—independently and externally—and it is established that He existed before our universe, which later came into existence and was added to existence,
then we now have at least two existences: one coming after the eternally existing one. The question that arises is: where is this second ontological entity, which is the entire universe, in relation to the already existing ontological entity that is God?
You are faced with a few options: either you affirm that one is distinct, separate and outside the other, or that their essences are intermingled, or that one does not exist externally and ontologically. Unfortunately, the later Ash'aris have chosen the latter,
denying the ontological existence of God, comparing Him to universals and mental concepts. This is absolute atheism, as you are undoubtedly aware.
Wallahu a'lam.
Wallahu a'lam.
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