🧵Refuting the Neo-Jahmī Ḥanābilah belief: ▶"Uncreated Quran and the Created Throne"◀
If the Book is uncreated according to your belief, how can you say the Throne is created❓️
Ahl Sunnah believes in the Ijtihad of Mahdi. He won't blindly follow an Istihsan.
If the Book is uncreated according to your belief, how can you say the Throne is created❓️
Ahl Sunnah believes in the Ijtihad of Mahdi. He won't blindly follow an Istihsan.
1. Book was with Him on His Throne.
2. Throne existed before the Book
3. Throne and Book were before the Creation.
4. Allah was already upon the Throne
Neither Quran, nor Bukhari, nor Muslim says Arsh is created. On the contrary, they say Allah was on the throne when He created the creation.
Neither Quran, nor Bukhari, nor Muslim says Arsh is created. On the contrary, they say Allah was on the throne when He created the creation.
5. Throne was over the water
Muhammad ﷺ didn't say the throne was created. Rather he said, "There was Allah and nothing else before Him and His Throne was over the water."
Why are you eager to say it's a creation? The wisdom is in the words of Rasool ﷺ
Muhammad ﷺ didn't say the throne was created. Rather he said, "There was Allah and nothing else before Him and His Throne was over the water."
Why are you eager to say it's a creation? The wisdom is in the words of Rasool ﷺ
6. The Pen was the First Creation.
❓️Will you deny the fact that Throne and Book existed before Pen? No, right?
When you say the throne was a creation, you'll have to negate this hadith.
Muhammad ﷺ clearly said: "Verily the first of what Allah created was the pen."❗️
❓️Will you deny the fact that Throne and Book existed before Pen? No, right?
When you say the throne was a creation, you'll have to negate this hadith.
Muhammad ﷺ clearly said: "Verily the first of what Allah created was the pen."❗️
Do we hear Allah saying the throne was a creation? Nowhere.
Allah is the creator. We won't deny the fact that Allah can create a throne. Allah alone is the Creator of all things. The point is that your view that the book was uncreated and the throne was created is awkward.
Allah is the creator. We won't deny the fact that Allah can create a throne. Allah alone is the Creator of all things. The point is that your view that the book was uncreated and the throne was created is awkward.
In that case, @Abu_Umar90 You have to believe the book was also created. You have no choice but to believe the book and throne are eternal.
Otherwise, it's automatic hypocrisy. Don't bring the views of the scholars. Cause you also don't believe in their infallibility.
Otherwise, it's automatic hypocrisy. Don't bring the views of the scholars. Cause you also don't believe in their infallibility.
Does God need a Material Thing?
Even if you try to quote the scholars of the past, we can easily debunk you.
You lack the fiqh behind their sayings. They meant the spiritual creation of the throne and which is not materialistic but what befits His Majesty. If that's the case, we also agree with you.
You lack the fiqh behind their sayings. They meant the spiritual creation of the throne and which is not materialistic but what befits His Majesty. If that's the case, we also agree with you.
Accusing Ibn Taymiyyah (Rh) won't help you at all. He didn't say anything against the hadith "Pen was the first creation." It's you who misunderstood his teachings saying Arsh is created. He didn't mean it was physical.
You clearly said it's physical.
Courtesy: @fazal_chughtai
You clearly said it's physical.
Courtesy: @fazal_chughtai
According to Ibn Qayyim (Rh) and Ibn Taymiyyah (Rh), there are certain actions which are uncreated.
Look, their aqeedah "Istiwa Alal Arsh" is not created.
Istiwa Alal Arsh is pre-eternal since the beginning. Hence, again you are in a problem.
Look, their aqeedah "Istiwa Alal Arsh" is not created.
Istiwa Alal Arsh is pre-eternal since the beginning. Hence, again you are in a problem.
How can before the creation of the throne, Allah can have the uncreated/eternal Istiwa Alal Arsh? 🧐
This Hanafi scholar also misunderstood Ibn Taymiyyah (Rh) just like you. That hadith doesn't go against him.
Again, how can the Arsh be a creation?
This Hanafi scholar also misunderstood Ibn Taymiyyah (Rh) just like you. That hadith doesn't go against him.
Again, how can the Arsh be a creation?
Super Salafis and Hanafis already reject the notion that Muhammad ﷺ will sit on the throne of Allah. Sheik Albani said it's weak. You can't use the hadith of Musa (as). Courtesy:@BroHajji
The majority is already against you. You are using weak hadith against Ahmadiyya. 😵
The majority is already against you. You are using weak hadith against Ahmadiyya. 😵
Humans don't know about Rooh or the Spiritual realm. So How absurd is it to deny Mahdi's word that the throne is non-material?
The true knowledge on the throne can be understood from the words of Ahmad (as)🌹
The throne of Allah is His Station of Singleness and Transcendence.
The true knowledge on the throne can be understood from the words of Ahmad (as)🌹
The throne of Allah is His Station of Singleness and Transcendence.
Again, theologically if you are saying the Arsh is a creation. You are mixing Allah with a created physical object. (Nauzubillah)
▶ If then what's the difference between you and the Hindus❓
They also believe Allah's station or form is mixed with creations.
▶ If then what's the difference between you and the Hindus❓
They also believe Allah's station or form is mixed with creations.
The created objects have a limit. You are confining Allah to a physical entity. That's blasphemy.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) of Qadian didn't contradict Ahmad ﷺ
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) of Qadian didn't contradict Ahmad ﷺ
His teachings are in line with that of Muhammad (pbuh); God rises above human reason and human reason can't reach Him.
@Abu_Umar90 You tried to cherry-pick his statement. This is the reason why he described its as uncreated. Why do you hide this in your tweets?
I'm pretty sure you don't have good understanding what's "created" or "uncreated" according to Ahl Sunnah.
That's why I brought you the statement of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (Rh).
▶ Quran is not created but originated from Allah.
◀ Throne is uncreated but originated from Allah.
That's why I brought you the statement of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (Rh).
▶ Quran is not created but originated from Allah.
◀ Throne is uncreated but originated from Allah.
It's funny that a Hanbali approaching a Barelwi Shah @Ahmadiyyafacts for help for verification of Aqaid.
▶ The view of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (AS)
"I won't say anything whether Arsh is created or uncreated. This should be left to God.
Those who called it created have also erred, because then God is found to be limited, and those who say it is uncreated ▶
"I won't say anything whether Arsh is created or uncreated. This should be left to God.
Those who called it created have also erred, because then God is found to be limited, and those who say it is uncreated ▶
Hanbalis vs Hanbalis❗
Oops. I'm not the first guy to expose your wickedness. Even great Ḥanbalites did it in the past. Thanks.
Special thanks to @zaryab1997
Oops. I'm not the first guy to expose your wickedness. Even great Ḥanbalites did it in the past. Thanks.
Special thanks to @zaryab1997
End Quote:
▶ The Qur’an is the word of God, sent down by Him and
uncreated; it originated from Him and will return to Him.
▶ In the same sense, the Throne of Allah originated from him and will return to him.
▶ The Qur’an is the word of God, sent down by Him and
uncreated; it originated from Him and will return to Him.
▶ In the same sense, the Throne of Allah originated from him and will return to him.
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